Bring Your Bubbles (Jaclyn Dima)
Musician and artist Jaclyn Dima talks about growing up in a musical family, finding her way through open mics and teaching, and returning to music with her latest single “I Won’t Dance For You.” We also get into genre hopping, perfectionism, and why she refuses to pick just one lane.
Key Takeaways
You never really stop being a student, especially if you’re building a creative life.
Sometimes the path that works is the one you accidentally fall into, then choose to keep following.
Not every artist needs to pick one genre lane, especially when the audience connects with the person behind the work.
Details matter but at some point you have to stop tweaking and release the thing.
Joy is part of the creative process too.
Follow Jaclyn:
Also Available On:
Want more reminders that creative growth does not always follow a straight line?
Sign up for The Monthly Scramble for featured episodes, collaboration ideas, creator takeaways, and more stories from artists who keep finding their way forward.
Presented by Omelette Prevail, where we help brands and creators turn ideas, relationships, and collaborations into something meaningful.
Why This Matters
One of the biggest threads in this episode is that creative identity does not always arrive cleanly packaged. Jaclyn’s path moves from opera to open mics, funk projects, early childhood music, 80s pop, bubbles, sequined jackets, and a song that took outside support to finally release.
For creators, there is something freeing about hearing someone say they are not going to pick a lane. It does not mean there is no strategy. It means the strategy has to support the artist instead of shrinking them. Sometimes the right collaborator, producer, publicist, or creative partner helps you see the thread that was already there.
The real win is finding enough structure to release the work without losing the joy that made you want to create it in the first place.
Related Episodes
Guest: Kris Roe of The Ataris
Kris Roe reflects on songwriting, creative longevity, and staying connected to the emotional core of making music.
Guest: Jack Mangan of SLAM
Jack Mangan shares how music can grow into something bigger than performance, from community building to creative purpose.
Transcript:
Mike: Hey, Jaclyn, how are you?
Jaclyn: Good, Mike. How are you?
Mike: I’m doing fantastic. Thank you so much for asking. Before we start, I did want to do a quick shout-out to your publicist, Dani Felt. Shout out to Dani. She has sent over to us a number of wonderful guests, and I’m so excited to have you. She also was a recent guest on the podcast as well, so I do want to give a quick shout-out to her before we get started.
Jaclyn: Dani Felt. Yes. The amazing Dani Felt.
Mike: So we’re going to talk about you, of course, and I do want to start off with this question: what does being a student mean to you?
Jaclyn: What does being a student mean to me? That is a loaded question because I teach also, as many musicians do. Well, I shouldn’t say most. Many musicians teach also.
Being a student, and it’s funny too, because I was a terrible student. I was a terrible, terrible student growing up.
Mike: Really?
Jaclyn: Yeah.
Mike: In elementary school, or also in college as well?
Jaclyn: School just wasn’t my thing. It’s funny though, because when you start studying the things you want to study, then you thrive.
So, what does it mean to be a student? It’s so hard to answer because I also think of things in terms of being a teacher too, and the impact that I have on the kids. When the parents come to me and they’re like, “You’ve gotten my kid into music,” and blah, blah, blah, and things like that.
So, what does it mean to be a student? We’re always students. We are. I don’t think we should ever stop. None of us should stop being students, whether you’re good or bad at it. Like, I am not good at it. We never stop learning. What does it mean to be a student? That’s a big question.
Mike: It is a big question, but you’re right. I like to say we are forever students, right? We’re always learning. If you look at the true masters of any craft, they’ll say the same thing, that they are still learning their craft literally until the end. Even the ones that are at the very top, the reason they are at the top is because they’re constantly learning, trying different things, being more fascinated by their craft, and trying to improve anywhere they possibly can.
I think that’s always important to go back to, that even after traditional schooling, you should always be on the lookout for learning how to improve on what you are passionate about.
Jaclyn: Yeah. And you know what I think is interesting in those terms too? When you’re going through, especially as a musician, because that’s what I know. I’m a musician. I’m sure in many arts, and probably any industry you’re in, there are so many ways of being the thing that you are a student of.
Last night, I was practicing some songs. I’ve been through so many different genres in my career. Last night I was playing, if you know or remember the song “Uninvited” by Alanis Morissette, and I’m just playing through it and remembering in the 90s being like, “Man, this song is just crazy. Has anyone written a song like this ever? And has anyone done it since?”
And just playing it last night, same exact question. I was like, “Has anyone done this since? Did anyone do it before?” I was a classical major. I was trying to think back into classical music, like, did anyone? Of course my husband’s like, “That would be a great question for AI.” I was like, “Actually, it probably wouldn’t be,” because it doesn’t answer questions like that very well.
Mike: That’s very, very true.
Jaclyn: Very perceptive.
Mike: So of course, it sounds like music has always been very important to you. Did you grow up with music in your household, or was that something that you discovered later on in life?
Jaclyn: Yeah. My mom’s a musician. Mom is a retired choir director. That’ll get in your mouth. Say it three times fast: retired choir director.
She would take her students at the high school level to all these competitions and stuff. I would go to all the competitions growing up. It was so much fun because of the girls in the sparkles, you know? Oh, and the choreography. That was so much fun.
My mom was very jazz-based, so a lot of her repertoire that she would bring into the choirs and stuff too was very jazz-based. My granddad, my mom’s dad, was a pianist as well, and he was really into, not ragtime, more like stride piano, that kind of stuff from the 30s and 40s.
That kind of music was really big in my life. Classical a bit, but it was really more like the jazz standards, the crooners, and that kind of stuff. So that’s what I grew up with big time in the house.
Mike: Yeah, it’s interesting because my aunt and uncle were both band teachers, so I can relate to that. It was always so much fun, and I feel that definitely helped guide my direction because I was a total band nerd growing up. I played the trumpet, so I was in the marching band, jazz band, orchestra, ensembles, all those things.
I do remember, especially when I was a part of some of the different orchestras and bands that were even outside of school, for example, that my aunt and uncle both taught or conducted. It was something I felt very proud of. That was essentially part of the legacy of my family, being in music. It was something I was always very proud of, and I feel it definitely directed me throughout my life in being involved in music in some way.
As well as being a teacher. That was another big aspect of it too, that I knew from a very early age that I always wanted to be a teacher.
Jaclyn: Yeah. For sure. That is an interesting thing too, when you’re watching the teachers and you’re like, “Wow, I want to do that. That’s cool.” There’s so much strength in that.
Same thing with my mom because she was the choir director, and she’d wear sparkly dresses and her stilettos. She was so cool. She still is, but when you’re watching something that majestic, it’s like, “Whoa.”
Mike: Did you know early on that you wanted to have teaching as part of your life because of your mom?
Jaclyn: It was interesting. When you’re young and they’re trying to make you make a decision when you’re 15 years old, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” You have to make these decisions on what college you want to go to right now.
Mike: Of course, absolutely.
Jaclyn: Because we know what we want to do when we’re 15.
So that was the direction I was actually headed for a while. I was like, “Yeah, I want to go into music education specifically.” Then somewhere down the road, I don’t remember what happened, but I had this massive switch. I was like, “Yeah, no, I think I should probably do performance because I shouldn’t be in charge of teaching people.”
So I went through one of those things, and I ended up actually majoring in performance instead. I don’t know. It was weird. There was almost a stage fright-ish thing to it, or maybe imposter syndrome. Like, “Oh, I shouldn’t be in charge of these things. It’s too important. I’ll screw up. What if the next Mozart is in there and I screw it up?” So I stuck with performance.
Mike: I can understand that. It’s interesting because you mentioned that you felt you were not a great student, but you still went on and majored in vocal performance afterwards.
Jaclyn: Yeah. I majored in vocal performance afterwards, and I focused in on opera and stuff like that. I was fine being a student.
No, you know what? I was still a bad voice student. I was just a better student. You just made all these memories come in. I remember my teacher saying, “I need more work out of you,” one time.
Yeah. It was really music history and music theory. Theory was fine. It was really music history. I just couldn’t get it. I had to take it like four times. I just couldn’t retain it. Then you grow up and you learn that you were undiagnosed ADHD this whole time, and it’s like, “Oh, well, that would’ve been nice to know 30 years ago.”
Mike: Yeah, exactly. You don’t know. Everyone learns differently, and sometimes that works in a more structured environment, such as a classroom, and sometimes it doesn’t. I know for myself, I’m kind of in that middle area where I wasn’t a terrible student, but I was a decent enough student.
For me, I learned best from a practical standpoint. I want to try things out, see what works, what doesn’t work. I like to joke that I like to do things the hard way because the hard way is the way I learn. I’ll do it knowing full well this probably will fail or whatever the case is, and it will.
But I’ll go, “Okay, at least I did it that way. I know that doesn’t work and the reasons why it doesn’t work, and I can now be better for it.”
Everyone’s different, right? Some people don’t like that. They want to be more analytical, or they need to be guided through that entire learning process. They won’t do that on their own. They need that help, and that’s great too. It’s important to understand that everyone has different ways that they learn.
Jaclyn: Yeah, for sure. That brings me to something I’m sure we’ll get to from what you said before. I’ve learned through the years how I process things. Now that I teach early childhood music, I go to the daycares and the preschools, and I work with the youngest people. I do these music classes, which are more performative than anything. We’re singing and dancing, right?
But I’ll tell you what I notice the most, and I love them all. They’re great. You can’t really get annoyed at anybody at that age. They’re just awesome. It’s a great age group.
The ones who are either on the spectrum or ADHD, all those things, when it comes to music, I find they have the biggest impact and the most growth. Those are the ones I’m like, “Ah, that’s my child. Let’s sing and dance.”
There’s something about the way that kind of brain works, especially with how I work with them. It’s a lot of fun, and I see a lot of growth with that.
Mike: Have you found that teaching at that level, and being aware of the different needs your students have, has made you more aware of people in general, including adults? Like, “Oh, I can see the behaviors now and how I can handle communication with them better.”
Jaclyn: Teaching, I’m not sure what would happen if I taught high school age or whatever. I fell into early childhood because I was looking for a job, and I got a job. I have the personality that gravitates toward young children, so I got the job. Hey.
I got very addicted to the work, and still am. I love doing early childhood music. It’s infectious. It’s awesome.
Early on, when I started getting good at it, because I wasn’t good at it at first. I really wasn’t good at it. But when I started getting good at it, it started making other things easier.
I was bartending before teaching early childhood, and I used to get really frustrated with drunk people. Super frustrated. Then, just a few months into doing this work, I started getting really sympathetic to the drunk people. People I was working with would be like, “Whoa, Jacqueline, you just... okay. Sure. This must be the new job.”
I don’t know, but it totally changed me. It changed my performances. And yes, I bring bubbles to grown-up shows. Yes, I do.
Mike: Yes. That’s awesome.
Jaclyn: Because why not? I’m sorry, but the things that you bring to the kids’ shows, grown-ups like this stuff too, man.
Mike: Absolutely. We all still have that inner child, if you will. We all still love things. I still love bubbles even today.
Jaclyn: Even today. Millennials and all of us, are we ever going to grow up? Probably not. But hey, here we are. Just appreciate those things.
Mike: You have to appreciate those things in life, right? Sometimes you just need bubbles.
Jaclyn: Sometimes you just need bubbles. I’ve got to write that down. That’s the next song, “Sometimes You Just Need Bubbles.”
Mike: There you go. Sometimes you just need bubbles. That’s a good one.
So I did want to talk about post-college. You come out of college, and at some point you move to New York City. Obviously you were focusing on performance at this point in your life, so New York City is a pretty obvious choice. But why specifically New York? You have Nashville, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and so many music hubs in the country. Why New York specifically?
Jaclyn: That’s such a good question. I do remember when I was graduating. I went to Indiana University, and it was a big music school, a big theater school. Basically everyone I was around, as we were getting ready to go off into adulthood, everybody was making those decisions. Really the big decisions were New York or LA. There wasn’t really much in between, at least that I heard of.
I thought about it for a long time before making the decision, and it was a hard decision to make. I went out to LA a few times, and I felt weird out there. I can’t explain it. I just felt strange, and still to this day when I go out there, I feel strange.
Now, I love California. That’s the thing. I love it. It’s just this weird, I don’t know, it’s like the ocean’s on the wrong side of my body. I don’t know what it is. My best friend, who’s lived out here her whole life, actually said that one time. She was like, “Yeah, the ocean’s on the wrong side.”
Mike: At least you tried.
Jaclyn: I think ultimately it might have been that a little bit.
Also, there was a big part of me that, even though I knew internally and in my heart I had made a real decision that I was going to try the singer-songwriter thing, there was a part of me that was like, “But I might want to audition. I’m not ready to give up on that yet.”
So I came out here, packed up my songbooks and my audition books, and I think I hit two auditions. I was like, “Yeah, I’m good. I’m done.”
Mike: The point is at least you tried and found out, “Okay, this is not for me,” right?
Jaclyn: This is not for me. And I found my community. I started going to these open mics. Cafe Vivaldi, this was back in the day, around 2008. Cafe Vivaldi and those kinds of places in the Village, and I found my people. I found my community, and it just kind of stuck.
I still see those people. Not often, but I see them. Actually, my best friend, Tracy Thorne, lives just a couple blocks down. We’re still all here. I still see a bunch of them all the time, and that was a big community builder. Those things are important when you’re so young and scared.
Mike: Did that help you then get to your projects? As you go out to New York, you’re finding what you’re liking and what you’re not liking, what’s working for you. You found your people. Did that help lead you into projects, or did you get projects in a different way?
Jaclyn: I’m trying to think. No. No. They were not related at all.
Mike: Really?
Jaclyn: Yeah. What happened there? I would look on Craigslist. Again, this is back in the 2008 era.
Mike: Yes, very much Craigslist. Which still happens today. I’ve talked to people, and they still use Craigslist for doing things. It’s still kicking. It’s crazy.
Jaclyn: I try the Facebook groups, but those are stressful. I don’t know. How do you build things anymore? I don’t know. We just have to walk out on the sidewalk, hold up a sign, and be like, “Hey everyone, I’m looking for a bass player.” I don’t even know anymore.
Mike: If you’re in New York City, that probably won’t be that hard to do. You could probably do that and find somebody in 10 minutes.
Jaclyn: I’ll give it a try, and I’ll get back to you.
Mike: Yeah, please do.
Jaclyn: It’s funny. It was my bass player first. I was bartending, and I met Charles, and we’re still friends today. He was my bass player. I still bug him when I have shows coming up. He’s got a lot going on. He’s releasing songs now too, so he can’t be bothered with my music right now. I’m just kidding, Charles. I love you. But I understand.
When I met Charles, we just kind of started playing music together. He was working on jazz music and needed a vocalist. Then how did the funky stuff happen? Gosh, I don’t remember how that all evolved. But me and Charles ended up holding auditions. Or was it me and George? I don’t know.
Something got funky, and I think it was when a guitar player we brought in came in, and then it got pretty funky. It was short-lived. We released an album together. I love that album. It was a great album. It’s called The Shaky Table Situation. Great, great album. I still love that. That was like 2014-ish.
We did that for a while, and it was this evolution of, I didn’t know what I was planning when I moved out here. But the evolution of everything kept happening. When that band got together, I was in it to win it. I was like, “Oh, we’re doing this.”
Then my now husband came into play, and he played with us for a while. It just kind of happened. I was just living my life out in New York City, and now I’m just a New Yorker. It just happened. Now I’m here.
Mike: Yeah. That makes sense. A lot of times it does ebb and flow like that. You met a musician this way, that musician knows other musicians, and then those connect you with these opportunities. But it only happens because you took a shot and went onto Craigslist to try to find somebody.
I think that’s the important thing. It’s not going to come to you. You still have to get out there. You still had to post that you were looking for somebody. You still had to go to the open mics and put yourself out there to connect with like-minded people. You still took those initiatives to find the people that you would ultimately want to work with.
Jaclyn: Yeah. It was a whole journey with a beginning, middle, and end. If I tried to write the story, it’s very fragmented. I didn’t realize it until you just said that.
Again, you should be a therapist.
Mike: This is what 18 years of artist management gets you. It’s very much part therapist, let me tell you. That definitely needs to be part of the job description. When you sign up to be an artist manager, therapist is right underneath that.
Jaclyn: Part therapist. That’s what bartending was. It was part therapist.
Mike: Oh, definitely.
Jaclyn: Probably like 80% therapist.
Then my therapist told me that what I do for a living, when I’m just playing music for the kids for these classes, and I have to go like this because it’s teaching. Maybe it’s the imposter syndrome. My therapist told me that I was a therapist in doing that. I was like, “Uh-huh.” And she’s like, “Yeah, that’s why you’re tired all the time.” I was like, “Oh.”
Mike: Is that why I’m tired too now? That makes sense.
It is interesting, right? Because it can get mentally draining when you are empathetic to other people’s emotions.
Jaclyn: That’s what she said. That’s what we’re doing the whole time, singing and dancing and jumping up and down and singing really loud and screaming at whoever’s like, “Stop climbing the walls.”
But also, it’s completely emotional. You are giving your entire self and receiving all of the emotions too. It’s a lot.
Again, you see the images of Taylor Swift on stage with millions of people, and anytime I see those images, I’m like, if I stood there for two seconds, I’d be exhausted. I would be so exhausted from the exchange. I would need a nap after two seconds of standing on that stage.
Mike: When I hear you talk about it, it sounds like you are very fulfilled in teaching. It’s a very fulfilling thing to do.
Jaclyn: It is fulfilling. You’ll hear so many teachers say that in any capacity. I didn’t realize what it was until I did it. You hit burnout. You definitely hit burnout. But it is a very fun job.
Early childhood, if you’re a musician and your personality is compatible, I highly recommend early childhood music because it is just, I laugh a lot. It’s a very joyous job.
Mike: You started doing the singer-songwriter work and doing all these projects. Then at some point, you decided that you needed to take a step away for a while and go into teaching. What made you decide to come back? Because you’re now going to be releasing new music, which we’ll get to in a second. What made you decide that you wanted to come back to it?
Jaclyn: I think it wasn’t even that as much as I sort of, when I got into early childhood music, I never stopped performing. I go to my schools and stuff, but I do kids concerts, family concerts. I do a lot of performing, parties, events.
For so long, I kind of just forgot about adult music. I don’t know how to really say it. I wrote a few songs, but it was funny because the grown-up songs I was writing were about mermaids. I wrote a song about sirens, like killer mermaids. It was like that, but it was still mermaids. That’s just my thing, but whatever. It doesn’t matter.
I just kind of didn’t really think about it. Nothing came to me as far as, “Oh, I’m going to play this.” I play some bars sometimes, and there are some bars I love to play. But many times I’d be like, “Ugh.” It just wasn’t aligning.
Then 2016 happened, the angst started, everything started, and I kind of started writing grown-up music again because I couldn’t help myself. I’m writing about the injustices and the anti-patriarchy and all those things. It’s just out.
I think when it comes to creating anyway, you create because there’s nothing else you can do. You have to.
Specifically with this song, when I wrote “I Won’t Dance For You,” I was just so pleased with it. I was so happy with this song. I sent it to my best friend Sue, and she was like, “Oh my God, you did it.” And I was like, “I think I did it. I think I did it.”
Then I sent it to my girlfriend Andy. Her husband is Jeff, who produced it. Jeff Lipman produced it. Andy was like, “Jeff is going to produce this song.” And I was like, “No, Andy, no, I really think I want to go in the direction of...” because I was trying to get some electronic stuff going. I really wanted to go out there, right? Out there.
She said, “No, it’s a rock song, and Jeff’s going to do it.” I was like, “Okay.”
What was funny about that was when I took the song to Jeff, he was absolutely, 1000%, the person to do it because he’s an 80s guy. I did not know that this song was an 80s pop song. I did not know until Jeff got ahold of it, and that’s what he turned it into.
So now, Pandora’s box. He opened up this can of worms, and now I’m specifically writing 80s music. Now I’m playing Heart every day. I’m learning their entire repertoire, and I’m starting to write like that.
That is what’s happening now. It’s just the journey. It just keeps journeying. I can’t complain too much because I’ve always been someone who, as far as genre goes, I know none of us can stick with one genre. We all love our many, many genres, especially as a 90s kid. We were so lucky to have so much. We just had so much back then. Maybe that’s what did it. I’ve hit all the genres.
Mike: You can get away with that now. Before, I would even say maybe 10 or 15 years ago, you really wanted to pick a lane as far as what kind of genre you wanted to focus on. I think nowadays, for artists, you can go in any direction and you can find an audience for it.
Jaclyn: Yeah. And Mike, you know what you just made me realize? I’m telling you, nearly 80% therapist. You just made me realize something.
You were asking what made me take a break from all this and all those kinds of things. Back then, when I did release an album and I was pitching it, a lot of the feedback I would get was, “It’s too all over the place. There are too many genres within this one album.”
I would respond, “I’m not going to pick a lane. I’m not going to pick a lane. I haven’t picked a lane yet. What makes you think I’m going to pick a lane now?”
So now my life has just been not picking lanes, and here we are. Now we’re on 80s pop music. Hey.
Mike: Especially these days, it’s more than just the genre. The business side of me wants to say brand, but I’m going to say persona. It’s about people connecting with you specifically as the artist.
Jaclyn: I think social media might have done that a little bit to people. Everything’s so personal too.
Mike: 100%. That, and also because we have so much bleed-over in genres. If you think about it, I was actually having a conversation with somebody a while ago. What is the last genre you can think of that was created, like an actual genre? Not a blend of things, but a truly specific genre. It could be a segment of a bigger genre. But what is the last genre you can think of that came out in the last 20 years or more?
Jaclyn: I think about this a lot, Mike. This is something that keeps me up at night. What happened to adult contemporary as a genre? Remember that? Where’s adult contemporary? It’s gone. Where is it?
Mike: It exists, but it’s not what we discuss, right? There are defined genres that we all talk about, and there are some legacy acts or new acts that are very dedicated to them. There are still straight-up new ska bands, right? That’s still a thing.
But those are genres that have been developed over the years. I was just thinking to myself, what was the last one? If anybody can tell me a new genre outside of this, let me know. But the last one I could think of was dubstep back in the early 2010s. That was the last defined genre that had a specific unique style to it that came out.
I can’t think of anything like that since then. You have some that became more popular, like shoegaze and things like that, but that’s still from the 2000s and maybe even earlier than that.
It’s interesting because as music has progressed and it became more acceptable that you can take different genres and combine them together, we have artists that are trying new and unique things, but everyone’s doing something unique in tandem with everyone else.
There’s not a core, “Oh, this is a particular style that now a number of artists are getting involved with.” It is just a conglomerate, if you will, of all kinds of different genres. It’s definitely a hodgepodge, and that changes from song to song sometimes as well.
I feel that these days it’s just more accepted, and I think the artists that are able to accomplish this have their own voice and style within that. You could do a rock song, but it’s still your song. Then you can have another song that maybe is folk or country, and it’s still your style, but it’s in that particular genre.
Jaclyn: It’s almost like it’s more accepted to do that now. What does King Gizzard call themselves? What’s their genre? Did they put themselves as anything? Because you can’t. I can’t. I’m going to look that up because I don’t know.
Mike: Yeah, I don’t know either. It’s so funny because on the representative side, it drives me crazy because they’re like, “What kind of style are they?” I’m like, “Listen to this song. You tell me.”
It’s more like, okay, they sound like these types of artists. Try to get them adjacent, right? They sound like this, this, and this combined, rather than one genre. Sometimes I have to tell artists, “You’ve got to pick something for a genre.” I don’t care if it’s close enough to something, just because that’s how music has been structured this entire time.
That still technically exists. I think that’s becoming less and less the case, but when you have to hit that dropdown and you’re submitting through DistroKid or TuneCore, you’ve got to pick a couple genres, which are the most basic selections imaginable.
Jaclyn: That stressed me out because I just had to do that the other day or other week or whatever. When I hit that dropdown, I was like... Jeff was helping me because I need a body double at all times. I need someone helping me with something at all times.
So Jeff was helping me through it, and when I hit the dropdown, I was like, “Dude, what is this?” He was like, “I don’t know.” I was like, “This is not me.”
Mike: In all fairness, love you, DistroKid and TuneCore, this actually has nothing to do with them. It has to do with the fact that that’s the bare minimum for what they can submit to everybody else.
Obviously, when you have so many other distributors that are out there, Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, you have to go with the lowest common denominator for what everyone accepts across the board. That’s where it makes it really challenging. I understand why. It’s frustrating, but at the same time, I get it. It’s not their fault. This is the base we have to work with.
Jaclyn: It’s subjective. When I was going to hit pop, I’m like, “Okay, it’s a pop song.” But then I’m like, “But Britney Spears is pop. Michael Jackson is pop. This is not Britney. This is not Michael.” Okay, it’s not pop then. It really threw me off. It’s tough.
Mike: It’s really, really tough. But I feel like, ironically, you mentioned going in lanes. It gives you a lane or direction-ish to go for. Fortunately these days, the recommendation engines kind of get you in close proximity to the artists that you sound like, which is more how we consume music.
If we like a particular artist, we like their particular style. That could be the same genre or it could be a completely different genre, but we like that particular style. Fortunately, it starts giving you suggestions that are related to that. I’ve found amazing artists because of that reason. I liked a particular artist in certain genres, and then all of a sudden it gave me recommendations to other artists that I really like now.
Jaclyn: Yeah. That’s a good point.
Mike: By the way, I just want to say that I fortunately got a sneak preview of “I Won’t Dance For You,” and I love the song. It’s a fantastic, fun song.
Besides the fact that you found this new thing, that you’re now writing 80s music, was there anything else that you’ve learned after taking a pause, and especially from teaching, that you’ve now brought to the table for yourself as an artist?
Jaclyn: Oh, that’s... You ask great questions. Man, you’re really making me think over here.
I think I slowed down a little bit in terms of that. I think it was because I took this song very seriously because it had been so long since I released anything. So I took it really seriously, and I was like, “No wrong moves. No wrong moves. This has to be perfect.”
That’s where I found Dani. I was like, “I want help with XYZ.” I found Dani, and I was like, “Oh my God, she’s the perfect person to help me with XYZ.” She did in an amazing way, and still continues to.
She slowed me down too, and she really keeps me in check. I think that’s what’s been really valuable working with her. I’ll be like, “No, it has to be perfect. I can’t do it.” Then she’ll be like, “Just put it out. It doesn’t have to be perfect.”
Mike: Done is better than perfect.
Jaclyn: Done is better than perfect. Eventually, you just have to share your art with the world. If it weren’t for Dani, honestly, I’d probably still be sitting on this song. But at the same time, she’s also moving it along.
That’s probably just the ADHD all over the place too. I would have just thrown it out, or it would still be sitting here on the desk. One of the two extremes.
But I’ve put a little more strategy toward things and allowed myself to do the artistic work behind it that’s really fun. I had never considered myself a visual person, and after working on all the branding stuff, the visual stuff is really fun, and it gets your brain moving in other ways.
Like, I put on lipstick. I never put on lipstick. You like my lipstick? It’s part of the colors we put together. I found lipstick that was the color of the thing on my, you know? It’s fun. It’s just a lot of fun.
Mike: That’s great, and it should be fun. That’s the part too. You are thinking about these things. That is what makes an artist an artist. You’re thinking about all the elements, not just one.
It’s more than just the music. It’s about your appearance, the visual aspects of it, your engagement with the audience if it’s a live performance. The performance itself is a part of your art.
Paying attention to those details makes all the difference in the world. If you think about successful artists, they’re the ones that pay the most attention to detail because they know that it matters. Those are the things that you don’t even realize you’re thinking about, but that detail is making you think about it.
Jaclyn: Those details make it so much more, I don’t know. The details are really fun. Back before I took my break, those details and that thinking caused me a lot of stress because I was always questioning it.
Like, “Is this the right decision? Am I wearing the right thing? Does this look right? I don’t know.” I never, ever knew, and so I was always questioning things.
After doing this whole branding workshop with her, I don’t question anymore. I’m like, “How about this color?” “Heck yeah, that color.” “How about this one?” “Ooh, yeah, that jacket. Definitely that.”
Maybe things are just falling into my lap easier now. Maybe something has cleared out. For example, my mom’s bomber jacket from the 80s with the sequins on it. It’s in some of the videos. That appeared right before my photo shoot in Cincinnati.
She was like, “Yeah, I’m pretty sure...” I was like, “Where is that bomber jacket?” She’s like, “I think it’s upstairs.” I’m like, “No. No way.” And she’s like, “Yeah, it’s upstairs.” Sure enough, there it was.
I’m like, “Can I take it to the shoot?” And she’s like, “Yeah, you can have it.” I started crying. I’m like, “I can’t take this.” And she’s like, “It’s yours, Jacqueline. It’s time.”
So now I’ve got this 80s bomber jacket with sequins on it. Who knew I needed it until I really needed it? I just needed that jacket.
Mike: But again, you put it out. You asked for it, right? You were like, “Hey, I’m now remembering all these things that are around from my past. What is around me that I can use to express myself and what I want to do?”
It’s interesting. There’s an interesting balancing act between paying attention to details and releasing something. Because the question comes down to, if I constantly pay attention to details, where does perfectionism come in compared to where it’s complete and being sent?
I think for everyone that’s going to be different. But paying attention to details is more about paying attention than anything else. It may not mean actually executing on implementing every detail. The point is that you’re thinking about it.
But there has to be a certain point where you go, “Okay, this is the point of no return. More details are not going to help us. They may make things worse or take longer.” You just need to send it out.
I know for myself, with any creative project, I like to have some sort of runway. I have enough completed that I feel confident in releasing this. I’m proud of it, but I also know it’s never going to be perfect. It’s good to where I’m proud of it and confident in it, and then I can improve as I go.
Jaclyn: Yep. Exactly. Sometimes it can be hard to let go. But at least with this song that I’m so excited about and so proud of, the things that weren’t perfect, I was like, “Yeah, well, you know what? I can deal with it now.”
Maybe that’s maturity. Maybe I’ve matured. Maybe. I don’t know.
But you want to hear something funny? I actually screwed up an entire lyric in the recording. It’s one word, but it’s kind of a big detail. I can’t think right now because I can’t think of two things at once and talk. There’s a lot I can do and talk at the same time. But I can’t do that.
The lyric I screwed up, the vocal performance that came out in that recording, I loved so much. I was like, “Eh, screw it. Just keep it.” So I’ll perform it with, I don’t know. Maybe I should figure that out. But yeah, I totally screwed up a lyric.
Mike: Think about it, how many songs can you think of that... I can’t think of any, so don’t put me on the fence here. I don’t remember any off the top of my head. But I do know there are so many artists where they mispronounce a word, but the way that they said it was more important than the word itself.
It was the emotion or the performance behind it. Even if they mispronounce a word, or said a different word, or whatever the case is, the performance of it truly matters at the end of the day. Yes, words and lyrics are also important too, but it’s also about the feeling behind them and how you perform it in those recordings.
Jaclyn: For sure. That’s been a big journey with recording again too, learning all that again. It is a performance even though this is just audio. The importance of all that is very fascinating, isn’t it?
Mike: It really is. All right, we can start wrapping things up here. I realize I didn’t tell you this, but I have some fun questions for you. I don’t tell any of my guests these ahead of time.
Jaclyn: You can’t prepare your questions.
Mike: Exactly. First fun question for you is, what was the very first concert that you ever went to?
Jaclyn: Okay. It might have been Whitney Houston when I was very, very little. Might have been.
Mike: Ooh, that’s good. Wow.
Jaclyn: I’m on a Whitney kick right now. But the one I remember the most is New Kids on the Block. We had to leave because it was too loud, because I was really little and I freaked out. I felt bad about that because my dad was being a good dad and taking me to New Kids on the Block. I saw them two years ago, so we’re good. We’re good.
Mike: Awesome. Nice.
Do you have any artists that you want to do a shout-out for? Any go-to artists that you’re listening to at the moment?
Jaclyn: I told you I’m on a big Heart kick. I’m on a huge Whitney kick because the movie was on a few months ago, so I got on a Whitney kick.
Favorite artist, I mean, Fiona Apple basically made me. So she’s a go-to. Michael Jackson is coming up because the movie came out and my algorithm is all Michael Jackson right now, which I think it just does, of course. And my 80s stuff.
Mike: Have you seen the biopic yet?
Jaclyn: I have not. I still need to see it. Mixed reviews. I’ve heard it’s beautiful, visually beautiful, and they did all the things. Jaafar did all the things. But the fan fans, like the crazy fans, are like, “Well, we kind of knew all that. We thought you were going to give us some insider info.”
Mike: I’m looking forward to seeing it, for sure.
All right, last question for you. If you were only able to give one piece of advice, what would that one piece of advice be?
Jaclyn: Bring your bubbles.
Mike: Yes. I might make that the podcast title because that’s such good advice. Bring your bubbles. I love it.
Jaclyn: I’m not sure how that popped in my head, but from earlier, and also all these protests I’ve been going to and all these events I go to, every time there’s a certain point where I’m like, “Darn it, I should have brought my bubbles.” That’s an ongoing thing, so that’s the answer I’m going to stick with. Bring your bubbles.
Mike: I love that. I love that so much.
Well, Jaclyn, thank you so much again for being on the show. I really appreciate it. This was such a blast. Again, I can’t wait for everyone else to hear your brand-new single, “I Won’t Dance For You.” It’s fantastic. I of course wish you the best of luck, but thank you so much again for being on the show.
Jaclyn: This was so much fun, Mike. I appreciate it.