Why Being “Interesting” Matters More Than Metrics (Livia Tortella from Black Box)
Livia Tortella shares her path through major labels, becoming co-president/CMO at Warner before founding music marketing agency Black Box. We talk about storytelling, work ethic, and why curiosity still matters in today’s music industry.
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Transcript:
Mike:
Livia, how are you?
Livia:
I’m great. How are you?
Mike:
I’m doing well. Thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Livia:
Of course. I’m happy to be here.
Mike:
I want to start a bit at the beginning. You’ve had a long career in the music industry, working your way through major labels and eventually becoming co-president and CMO at Warner before founding Black Box. Looking back, did you always see yourself ending up in music?
Livia:
Not necessarily. I always loved music, but I didn’t have a clear plan early on. I think a lot of my career was driven by curiosity and saying yes to opportunities that felt interesting, even if they didn’t fit into a perfectly mapped-out path.
Mike:
That’s something I hear a lot from people who’ve built long careers — that it’s less about a straight line and more about following what pulls you in.
Livia:
Exactly. I didn’t wake up one day and say, “I want to be an executive.” I was more focused on doing the work well, learning as much as I could, and being genuinely interested in what I was doing. Over time, that led to more responsibility and leadership roles.
Mike:
You spent years inside the major-label system. What do you think people on the outside misunderstand most about that world?
Livia:
I think people often assume it’s all about numbers and hits, and while metrics matter, there’s so much more happening behind the scenes. A lot of it comes down to storytelling, relationships, and understanding how to develop artists over time. Those things don’t always show up immediately in the data.
Mike:
And eventually you reached the point of becoming co-president and CMO at Warner, which is no small feat.
Livia:
It was a huge responsibility and something I was very proud of. But even at that level, I still cared deeply about the creative side and the people behind the music. That never went away.
Mike:
When you reached that level at Warner, how did your relationship with metrics change? Because obviously numbers matter, but you’ve talked a lot about not letting them dictate everything.
Livia:
Metrics are important, but they’re a tool — not the goal. I think at a certain point in my career, I realized how dangerous it can be when numbers become the only thing guiding decisions. You start optimizing for short-term results instead of long-term growth, and that can hurt artists and teams alike.
Mike:
That’s something I see a lot now — people chasing the fastest possible result instead of building something sustainable.
Livia:
Exactly. When you’re only chasing metrics, you lose sight of what actually makes an artist compelling. Being interesting, having a point of view, telling a story — those are the things that create longevity. Metrics often catch up later, but they shouldn’t be the starting point.
Mike:
How did that play out in your role at Warner?
Livia:
As a leader, my responsibility wasn’t just to hit numbers, but to create an environment where people could do their best work. That meant encouraging curiosity, experimentation, and sometimes taking risks that didn’t immediately show a return. Not everything that matters can be measured right away.
Mike:
That’s a tough balance, especially at a large company.
Livia:
It is. There’s pressure from every direction — internally, externally, from the market. But I always believed that if you focus on quality and intention, the results tend to follow. It might not be instant, but it’s more meaningful.
Mike:
You’ve also talked about work ethic being a huge part of your journey. How do you define that now, after decades in the industry?
Livia:
For me, work ethic isn’t about working nonstop or burning yourself out. It’s about care. Caring about the details, caring about the people you work with, and caring about the outcome. That kind of commitment shows up in the work, and people notice it.
Mike:
That really resonates. It’s not just about grinding — it’s about intention.
Livia:
Exactly. And curiosity plays into that too. When you stay curious, you keep learning. You don’t get complacent, and you don’t assume you have all the answers just because you’ve been doing something for a long time.
Mike:
Was there a moment where you started to feel like the corporate structure was no longer the right place for you?
Livia:
It wasn’t one moment — it was gradual. I started feeling more drawn to working closer to artists again, being more hands-on, and having the freedom to make decisions based on values rather than just scale. That’s when the idea of building something outside of the major-label system really started to take shape.
Mike:
So let’s talk about that transition. After spending so many years inside major labels and reaching an executive level at Warner, what finally pushed you to take the leap and build Black Box?
Livia:
It really came down to wanting to work differently. I loved my time at Warner and learned so much there, but I missed being closer to the work and closer to the artists. I wanted more flexibility to think long-term and make decisions that weren’t solely driven by scale or immediate results.
Mike:
That’s a big shift — going from a massive organization to building something from the ground up.
Livia:
It is, but it also felt very natural. Black Box was born out of everything I had experienced up to that point. I wanted to create a space where strategy, creativity, and care could coexist — where artists weren’t treated like data points.
Mike:
How do you describe Black Box to people who may not fully understand what you do?
Livia:
At its core, Black Box is about artist development and storytelling. We help artists understand who they are, what they stand for, and how to communicate that clearly. Marketing is part of it, of course, but it’s grounded in identity and intention rather than chasing trends.
Mike:
That feels very aligned with the idea of being “interesting” rather than just being visible.
Livia:
Exactly. Visibility without substance doesn’t last. Being interesting means having a point of view, taking creative risks, and being willing to stand behind your work. That’s what builds trust with an audience over time.
Mike:
What’s been the biggest adjustment for you personally since starting Black Box?
Livia:
Probably slowing down in a good way. In corporate environments, everything moves fast, and you’re constantly reacting. Building Black Box allowed me to be more thoughtful and intentional. It’s less about volume and more about depth.
Mike:
That’s something a lot of creatives struggle with — feeling like they have to keep up at all costs.
Livia:
Yes, and that pressure can be exhausting. One of the things I emphasize with artists is patience. Careers aren’t built overnight, even though social media can make it seem that way. The strongest work usually takes time.
Mike:
How do you balance guiding artists without imposing too much direction?
Livia:
Listening. My role isn’t to tell artists who they are, but to help them articulate what’s already there. When artists feel understood and supported, the work becomes more honest and more compelling.
Mike:
Before we wrap up, I want to ask about advice — because you’ve worked with so many artists and creatives at different stages. What do you find yourself saying most often?
Livia:
I usually come back to curiosity. Stay curious about the world, about your own work, and about the people around you. The moment you think you have it all figured out is when you stop growing.
Mike:
That feels especially important right now, when everything moves so fast.
Livia:
It really is. There’s a lot of pressure to react immediately — to trends, numbers, feedback — but taking a step back and asking why you’re doing something is incredibly valuable. Curiosity creates depth, and depth creates longevity.
Mike:
If someone listening feels stuck chasing metrics or comparing themselves to others, what would you want them to hear?
Livia:
Metrics can be helpful, but they’re not a measure of your worth or your potential. Focus on doing meaningful work and doing it well. If you care deeply about what you’re creating, that tends to resonate over time.
Mike:
That’s such a grounding way to look at it.
Livia:
I think a lot of people forget that careers are long. There will be highs and lows, moments of visibility and moments of quiet. The key is staying committed through all of it and trusting that the work adds up.
Mike:
Looking back at your own career — from major labels to building Black Box — is there anything you’d do differently?
Livia:
Honestly, not much. Every stage taught me something I needed for the next one. Even the hard moments were useful. They clarified what mattered to me and how I wanted to show up in my work.
Mike:
That’s a great way to frame it.
Livia:
I think the goal is to build something you’re proud of, not just something that looks good on paper. If you can do that — whether you’re an artist, a creative, or a leader — the rest tends to follow.
Mike:
Livia, this has been such a great conversation. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and experience.
Livia:
Thank you. I really enjoyed it. These are conversations I think people need to hear more often.
Mike:
Absolutely. Thanks again for being on the show.
Livia:
Thank you.