Building a Niche Label Around Film Scores (Robin Esterhammer from Perseverance Records)
Robin is the founder of Perseverance Records, an independent label focused on rescuing and releasing film scores, specializing in rare, unreleased, and archival music. He shares how his passion turned into a long-running label preserving soundtracks, cultivating superfans, and navigating physical media in a world of streaming.
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Transcript:
Mike:
Hey Robin, how are you?
Robin:
Hey Michael, I’m doing great. I’m really looking forward to the interview, and thank you so much for having me.
Mike:
Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for joining. I always love having fellow label founders on the show because there’s just so much shared experience there. Running a record label is a huge responsibility, especially when you’re representing a creator’s work. That’s something I’ve always taken very seriously, and it’s always an honor to talk with people who feel the same way.
Your story is especially interesting to me, and I want to go back a bit. I know you’re deeply into film scores now, but did you grow up loving music and soundtracks?
Robin:
Not really, actually. I wasn’t into music at all until I was about 13. I didn’t like the music my parents listened to, and I never really understood what people got out of music. It felt completely alien to me.
I liked a little bit of classical music, and when I was younger, Queen was really big—I’m still a huge Queen fan. But the real turning point happened when I was living in Germany and went to Canada at age 13. Some friends took us to see The Empire Strikes Back, and that was just a mind-blowing experience.
I went out and bought the soundtrack right after. In Germany, we didn’t have the double LP—only a single LP that started with “The Imperial March.” I played that record to death.
After that, Once Upon a Time in the West by Ennio Morricone really hit me. But the decisive moment was Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. When I heard that score, I thought, “Who is this guy?” It was James Horner. I assumed he was already a huge, established composer, but at the time he’d mostly done low-budget Roger Corman films. I remember thinking, “This guy is going places.”
Mike:
That’s incredible. And fast-forward from that moment to today—you’ve released thousands of CDs and hundreds of releases. How did the label itself actually begin?
Robin:
The tapes that started it all were actually found by my friend Paul Tonks’ friend. They were found in a dumpster behind CTS Studios in London—master tapes for Dr. Phibes Rises Again. Paul knew it was one of my favorite films and contacted me.
At the time, I was working for Christopher Franke at Sonic Images Records. Paul asked me what we should do with the tapes, so I reached out to the composer, John Gale. He said we could release the score, but only if the copyright holder approved. That ended up being MGM.
I contacted Jonathan Watkins, who was head of A&R at MGM at the time. I paid them a thousand dollars in advance—25 years ago, that was a lot of money—and they licensed the score to me. That’s how the label was born.
Mike:
That’s wild. And that release actually sold?
Robin:
Yes, it sold incredibly well. We followed it with Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I flew to San Francisco to interview Denny Zeitlin in a hotel room, and we included the interview on the CD. Between those two releases, we sold about 3,000 copies of each, which is amazing for a film score.
Mike:
That’s huge—especially for titles that most people outside of film-score circles might not know.
Before starting the label, were you already working in the music industry?
Robin:
I was working in the film industry. I got my degree in cinema from Columbia College in Los Angeles in 1996. I worked as a producer and did music videos and commercials, including projects in Cambodia and Vietnam.
Later, a friend told me about a label looking for a German-speaking assistant to the CFO. I sent my resume, interviewed in both German and English, and got the job. That label was Sonic Images Records, run by Christopher Franke.
He had huge success with Babylon 5, and we released all the soundtracks for that series. I handled everything except composing—liner notes, spotting notes, hiring, production. Eventually, I realized I wanted to focus entirely on film music from the label side.
When that wasn’t possible there, I decided it was time to leave and do my own label. In 1999, I founded Perseverance Records and haven’t looked back.
Mike:
That’s a huge leap—leaving something stable to start your own label, especially in something as niche as film music. You already understood the risks involved, so what made you decide to go all in instead of doing the label on the side?
Robin:
I think it was because I was so passionate about film music, and I had already reached my pinnacle at Sonic Images Productions. I wanted to do something new with film music—something that went deeper into the production and presentation of soundtracks.
I had already gotten a taste of working on the label side because I handled so much of the Babylon 5 releases. I loved being involved in the details—liner notes, production, credits, all of it. When it became clear that I couldn’t move fully into that role there, I tried reaching out to other labels like Intrada and others, but no one was hiring at the time.
So I thought, “If I really want to do this, I’ll just do my own label.” That’s how it started.
Mike:
It sounds like once you had early success, that momentum helped open doors.
Robin:
Yes, absolutely. It helped that I already had connections—composer friends, producers, directors. That made a big difference. For example, with Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Denny Zeitlin was incredibly generous. He set up the interview himself and was just grateful that someone was interested in his music.
That was his only film score, and he really appreciated the attention. I was grateful too—here was someone who worked with Philip Kaufman, and he was willing to work with someone who was essentially a nobody at the time.
That kind of goodwill went a long way.
Mike:
That credibility matters so much, especially early on.
Robin:
It really does. Over time, that trust builds. I worked with Craig Safan, who later became a close friend. We’ve visited his home several times, and he’s actually my son’s favorite film composer.
Those relationships helped shape the label and gave it legitimacy.
Mike:
And that legitimacy allowed you to keep going.
Robin:
Exactly. When it came time to think about the next 10 or 15 years of my life, the decision felt easier than you might expect. I had built a reputation in the film music industry, and I knew that if I was going to do this, I had to fully commit.
Mike:
One thing I find fascinating is how you design and present these releases. You’re not just releasing music—you’re curating experiences.
Robin:
That became especially clear when we started working with our current graphic artist, James Wingrove in Australia. He’s a huge film buff, and he understands both the music and the imagery.
With him, I don’t have to explain references. I can say something like, “Let’s call this album Tears in Rain,” and he immediately understands the Blade Runner reference. Or “Bumps and Hollows,” and he knows it’s from Legend.
Previous designers didn’t really get that. They didn’t know the films well enough. James had actually been a customer before we started working together, and when we collaborated on our first release, it was immediately clear that this was the right fit.
Mike:
And you’ve done dozens of releases together since then.
Robin:
Yes, many. We’re now around our 113th release. Compared to labels like La-La Land or Intrada, that might seem small, but I’m very proud of it.
Mike:
You should be. Running an independent label for that long—and staying focused on a niche—is no small accomplishment.
Robin:
Thank you. I really am proud of it.
Mike:
One thing we joked about earlier is how niche film scores really are. So how do you actually promote these releases, especially when many of them are older films or archival scores?
Robin:
It really is a very specific market. Right now, I’m working with someone named Brian Scott Gross in Los Angeles, who actually helped set up this interview. He reaches out to people and helps arrange interviews like this, which has been great.
We also used to have a social media director, Carla Vinegar, who sadly passed away a few years ago. Since then, I’ve been handling social media myself, and honestly, I’m just not very good at it. You really need to constantly be in front of fans on platforms like Instagram so they don’t forget about you or move on to other labels.
If anyone listening is interested in working with us as a freelance social media director, please reach out. It’s not a huge amount of work, but it would make a big difference.
Mike:
That’s a great callout. Did you do email marketing in the early days, before social media?
Robin:
Yes. In the beginning, I collected email addresses from customers—people who ordered directly from us or asked to receive updates. I had about 1,200 emails, and back then you could only send 50 emails at a time.
So every time we had a new release, I’d sit there and send dozens of emails in batches. Eventually, as the label grew, that just wasn’t sustainable anymore, so I hired someone to handle it.
Mike:
You mentioned earlier that you’ve released thousands of CDs. With the resurgence of vinyl over the last 15 years, did that impact your strategy at all?
Robin:
We actually never really did vinyl. Vinyl is very expensive, especially for limited releases. It can cost around eight dollars per LP just to press, which is something I never felt comfortable spending when it’s already difficult to sell CDs—and CDs cost about half that.
Unless you’re very established as a label, vinyl is a big financial risk. I have friends who’ve gone that route, but for us, CDs just made more sense.
Mike:
That surprises a lot of people, especially given how popular vinyl has become again.
Robin:
It’s still about practicality. CDs are more affordable to produce, and our audience still wants them.
People like to read the booklet. They like the liner notes. They like the credits. That experience matters.
I still actively buy CDs myself. I even use a small portable CD player connected to my computer. For me, streaming and downloads just don’t offer the same experience.
Mike:
That really resonates with me. Streaming is incredibly convenient—I use it all the time—but it also encourages passive listening. Physical media creates friction, and that friction makes you pay attention.
When you take a CD off the shelf, open it, put it in the player, you’re making a commitment to listen.
Robin:
Exactly. It’s a commitment. With streaming, music just plays for hours in the background while you’re doing other things. But when you sit down with a CD, you’re engaging with the music.
You don’t get that experience with downloads. You don’t get that experience with streaming.
Mike:
And I think that’s especially true for film scores. They’re meant to be experienced, not just consumed.
Robin:
Absolutely. Film music isn’t background music. It deserves to be listened to.
When you look at your collection—your physical collection—it’s a completely different feeling than scrolling through a digital library. I really hope CDs have a comeback one day, the way vinyl did.
Mike:
You’ve done a lot of full soundtrack releases, but you’re also working on compilations and anthologies. How do those come together?
Robin:
We started an anthology series called Forsaken Themes from Fantastic Films. We’re currently working on volumes three and four.
The idea came from wanting to release scores that were either too short or incomplete to stand on their own. Instead of letting that music go unreleased, we decided to curate it into compilations focused on science fiction, fantasy, and horror.
We include re-recorded material as well. For example, we licensed and included a Highlander suite performed by the Danish Film Orchestra. We’ve also done re-recordings in Macedonia and Croatia.
Mike:
That’s such a smart way to preserve music that might otherwise disappear.
Robin:
That’s exactly the goal. On upcoming volumes, we’re including re-recorded suites from Poltergeist III, Basket Case II, and even unused or temp-track material like Jerry Goldsmith’s editing music for Legend.
It’s a challenge finding enough material to fill an album, but once we reach around 50 to 60 minutes of music, we know we have something worth releasing.
Mike:
You also tried crowdfunding with a Kickstarter campaign for James Horner’s work. What did you learn from that experience?
Robin:
That was a tough lesson. We worked with James Horner’s widow, Sarah, and tried to fund the release of some of his original classical music. Despite his legendary career, there just wasn’t enough interest to make it viable.
It made us realize that film music fans and classical music fans don’t always overlap the way you might expect.
Mike:
That’s surprising, given how iconic his film work is.
Robin:
It surprised us too. But it taught us to be more careful and more focused. Now we’re planning a smaller project—a re-recording of The Pied Piper, a short fairy tale directed by Nicholas Meyer.
It’s more manageable, and it allows us to build trust by delivering something tangible without such a big financial risk.
Mike:
You also mentioned working with Brigham Young University on archival material.
Robin:
Yes, they have a large archive of Jerry Fielding scores that we’re interested in re-recording. That’s still years away, but it’s something we’d love to explore.
Mike:
I want to zoom out a bit. With all the changes in the music industry, do you think record labels are still necessary?
Robin:
I do. Labels still serve an important role by curating and filtering music. Anyone can upload music now, but not everything should be released.
For film music especially, the audience is very specific and global. Labels understand that audience and cater directly to them.
Mike:
I’ve always said that labels are the custodians of recorded music. There’s so much administrative and creative work behind the scenes that most people never see.
Robin:
That’s a great way to put it. Custodians is exactly the right word.
Mike:
Before we wrap up, I’ve got a couple of fun questions. What was the last movie you saw in theaters?
Robin:
Top Gun: Maverick. It was so loud I literally went deaf in my right ear afterward.
Mike:
That’s intense. One last question—if you could give just one piece of advice, what would it be?
Robin:
Be honest and reliable. Be kind. That’s the best thing you can do. If you do that, you’ll be successful in life.
Mike:
I couldn’t agree more. Robin, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. This was a great conversation.
Robin:
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it. And seriously—if anyone is interested in working with us as a freelance social media director, please reach out.